World Puja: Foundational Hormones

PODCAST | Ray Peat

null | Ray Peat

00:00:00 > Hello and welcome, this is [indiscernible] [0:00:15] health series broadcasting from World PUJA Network. I’m delighted and excited to present engaging in depth conversation with my very credible guests who are leaders, researchers, authors in the field of advanced nutrition, biochemistry, emotional intelligence, energy-based medicine and mind-body connection, which focus traits a state of health, energy level, and inner happiness. And this show is designed to give you the bottom line and practical information on ways to optimize your physical, emotional, and mental aspects of your well-being and your life, and I personally invite you to step up and make it your goals to become the optimal view by managing the number one resource,

00:01:02 > your energy of course, to your health and wellness. Hello, again this is [indiscernible] [0:01:10] World Puja Network broadcasting to your health and with me, I have Raymond Peat, and just a brief introduction. Raymond is an author. He has written Nutrition for Women, four editions; Mind and Tissue, two editions; Progesterone in Orthomolecular Medicine, two editions and Generative Energy. He also has two patents for progesterone in 1984, DHEA and other steroids for arthritis in 1986 and the use of steroids in treatment of osteoporosis and other degenerative diseases. He received his PhD in progesterone and related hormones in 1972 and that was actually a very interesting story how that

00:02:04 > came about, so I’m really looking forward to putting Raymond in hot seat and literally taking his brain and simplify some very complicated topics on foundational hormones. Raymond, Hello. RAY PEAT: Hello. HOST: How are you doing? RAY PEAT: Very good. HOST: Fantastic. So you did your PhD because you really wanted to study science, you really wanted to dedicate yourself to something where you could discover something new? RAY PEAT: Yeah, I had been studying interesting stuffs just trying to understand how the world works, and so I had specialized in linguistics, literature, painting and things that I was interested in, but I decided I should make knowledge useful. And I was, around the age of 30, I think when I decided that useful

00:03:06 > knowledge was really the purpose of brain. HOST: And you’re now ‘73, is that correct? RAY PEAT: Yes. HOST: And you’re still pursuing knowledge? RAY PEAT: And what? HOST: And you’re HOST: still pursuing knowledge? RAY PEAT: Oh! Yeah, that’s why I do newsletter every two months because I’m still trying to get the big picture more sharply focused. HOST: Yes. I have actually read all your articles, just read the articles on your website, some of them I’ve read two or three times because I really, really wanted to understand the complexity that you simplify when you just say in the couple of sentences and what really fascinated me was the foundational hormones, the pregnenolone, progesterone and the estrogen. I could not find out information anywhere and I have been researching that for personal reasons and for my clients, and I find that

00:04:08 > people really need to understand foundational hormones to see the bigger picture and your thesis was actually energy interrelated with structure that was the purpose of you doing that. Can you take us into the world of foundational hormones and why do we need them and what are they? RAY PEAT: I had been working in Mexico for several years and when I moved back to the US, I started noticing the effects of the weather on my health and especially on young women's health. In the winter at the university, lots of students would spend most of their time indoors and sometimes get no sun at all for several months at a time and I started seeing

00:05:10 > symptoms like premenstrual syndrome and depression that came on in the winter. And people who had never experienced those symptoms until they came to Eugene which is a very cloudy place in the winter, I started realizing that the sunlight is a major factor in allowing us to produce and use certain hormones, and progesterone is the main hormone that’s needed for both brain development and fertility. And sunlight – the reason animals are fertile in the spring is because sunlight, as the days get longer, the anti-stress hormones increase and that's mainly

00:06:12 > progesterone that increases in the spring causing the brain to function more with greater variety and energy and it allows fertility to be carried to completion. HOST: So that would be vitamin D that would be – which is also a pro-hormone? RAY PEAT: Well, that is one of the factors in sunlight. The vitamin D allows us to absorb and use calcium and calcium holds down some of the basic stress hormones that tend to put us into a torpid hibernation stage when it’s too dark. The hormones that make people depressed and sick in the winter

00:07:14 > are the same hormones that allow animals and nature to go into torpor or hibernation when the days are very short, and progesterone is the main anti-stress hormone that is inhibited if we’re deficient in either calcium or vitamin D. When vitamin D and calcium are not adequate in either the diet or the exposure to the environment, cells go into an excited inefficient state and they have to be quieted and put into a torpor by various other hormones. Progesterone keeps us out of that state, but to do it, you need to have your calcium under

00:08:16 > control. And it isn't just the vitamin D that regulates calcium, it's the energy produced in the mitochondria under the influence of good hormones and good nutrition. The mitochondria produce energy that keeps calcium out of cells and in the bones where it should be. And if you’re deficient in vitamin D and calcium, the hormone allow it to get into the mitochondria and poison them, but if the days are very long, even if you don't have vitamin D, the light that penetrates into your tissues is mostly red and yellow light and that light happens to quench the free radicals

00:09:18 > that damage the mitochondria and so it’s basically a low energy state that is caused by a deficiency of sunlight and/or vitamin D and for calcium. HOST: So we actually require the ultraviolet light from the sun to synthesize vitamin D, HOST: is that correct? RAY PEAT: Yes, and also the red light to quench free radicals that are RAY PEAT: produced by stress. HOST: Yes. And so if we go out in the sun in the early morning or probably after 5:00, we will not be getting enough ultraviolet light, so therefore even though we’re getting the sun, we are actually not getting the synthesis for vitamin D, is that correct? RAY PEAT: Well, we’re getting the anti-stress effect. If you get enough

00:10:20 > calcium and other nutrients, you can really get along with an extremely low vitamin D intake or synthesis. They’ve done experiments with animals in which they gave them a diet lacking vitamin D and low in calcium but when they gave them sugar rather than starch, simply the energy efficiency of the sugar allowed them to build strong bones and avoid rickets. So it’s much more complex than just taking a vitamin D. It’s the whole balance of nutrients. HOST: Yes, that makes a lot of sense. And you did talk about sugar or glucose and starch, and I actually don’t know the difference, carbohydrates to carbohydrates,

00:11:22 > there are different types of carbohydrates. What do you mean by starch and sugar? RAY PEAT: Well, in one of the basic lab experiments, the physiology professors have traditionally given their students is you would feed a rat with a stomach tube of huge gob of cornstarch or other pasty starch mixed with a little water, the equivalent of about a quart for a person, and then you would wait five minutes and you were instructed to find how far the starch had moved in the digestive system. And in just 10 minutes, the students will find no trace of starch that had been totally dissolved turned into sugar and absorbed in 10 minutes even though it was the equivalent of a quart for a human being,

00:12:24 > and starch is a chain of glucose molecules and so if you eat a given amount of energy or calories in the form of starch what you get is an instantaneous blast of glucose. If you eat the same amount of energy in the form of sucrose, just plain granulated sugar, the absorption of the sugar is slower, the glucose stimulates insulin and tends to turn on fat production. Fructose slightly inhibits the production of insulin and slightly inhibits the blood sugar disturbing effect of the glucose. HOST: That’s kind of interesting because the cornstarch is very predominating in most foods these days. I mean, you would find

00:13:26 > cornstarch in the form of Maltodextrin and I personally tell people not to take that because even though it seems to be harmless, it actually does cause quite a high blood sugar increase, not to mentioned the side-effects of, you know, a little bit of gas and flatulence and I think some people take that ingredient out of everything in their diet is enormous improvement yet it seems so innocent because it's added to everything Maltodextrin as a cornstarch. RAY PEAT: Yeah, if the starches are instantly absorbed as in the rat experiment, they cause obesity, and if they are mixed with other ingredients so that they are more slowly absorbed then they are fermented in the intestine and that type of slowly digested starch was found to cause animals to become fearful and aggressive

00:14:28 > because of the toxic effects produce by fermentation in the intestine. HOST: So that’s a classic of we are what we eat and often we don’t realize the effect that food has on our moods, on brain chemistry, energy level because we think if we could buy from the supermarket, is it being promoted on television, it’s harmless and yet a lot of the times it actually does impact the health even interferes with hormone production. Is that correct? RAY PEAT: Yes. Sugar is needed for the liver to activate the thyroid hormone which is what produces the energy that prevents stress and regulates minerals and growth and so on. And if someone tries to eat a low carbohydrate diet or if they eat only starches so that their blood sugar is going up and down very quickly,

00:15:30 > their thyroid doesn’t function properly because the essential ingredient for about 70% of our thyroid function which involves the liver’s activation of thyroxin into the active thyroid hormone and then without the active thyroid hormone, none of the other – none of the steroid hormones can be made, so the adrenals, the ovaries, and even the brain which is a major source of steroids can't adequately produce the protective steroids. HOST: And why do we need protective steroids? RAY PEAT: The steroids are a feature of all life. It’s not really sufficiently studied exactly what their role is, but

00:16:32 > cholesterol for example, is known to be involved in the process of cell division of the expression of genetic information. Every function of life involves either cholesterol or one of the steroids made from cholesterol, so it’s some function if the cell is living and dividing, it’s going to need steroid. HOST: Very few people really know that pregnenolone, when I often mention it because it’s probably in my opinion the safest one to take if you wanted to top-up your boost or foundational hormone just we live in the world of stress. Stress is unavoidable, it’s predictable, it’s always there, and some will actually addicted to stress. We actually get addicted to the adrenaline, I think that is what

00:17:34 > we do then we’d probably need a boost of pregnenolone after the age of 40, yet most people don't know probably because it can't be patented. Is it correct? RAY PEAT: Yeah, pregnenolone is the first hormone produced from cholesterol when a thyroid function is adequate. HOST: And I just would like to emphasize it is made from the LDL, which is classified as the bad cholesterol. Is it HOST: correct? RAY PEAT: Yes, and cholesterol has been injected into animals, and when they are being trained they become more intelligent and learn more quickly when their cholesterol is higher. And in the Framingham study, it was found that people at the age of 50 or more who don't have cholesterol above average, above the 200 milligrams percent, which

00:18:36 > the ideal is supposed to be 160 or so. So it’s slightly above what is considered optimal. If they don't have at least that much cholesterol, they have a much higher risk of becoming demented. The cholesterol is a very important brain chemical but one of its main functions is that the brain can turn into pregnenolone and DHEA and progesterone in very large quantities. And if you're limited in your ability to turn it into those hormones, taking pregnenolone bypasses one of the steps and so you can sometimes see a tremendous improvement of a person's ability to cope when they take just a little bit of pregnenolone. HOST: Yes, I have definitely noticed that and a few people that I have recommended to take pregnenolone

00:19:38 > if they really, really needed it, they actually noticed improvements in their brain function within first few days and they just couldn’t believe that it works so fast. If we are avoiding cholesterol and if we are avoiding eggs, most people are shocked to eat two or four eggs a day which cannot make sense because the egg yolk has everything you need to make pregnenolone. So if they are only having two eggs a week that obviously would be deficient in pregnenolone and probably progesterone. Is it correct? RAY PEAT: Well, you can make cholesterol if you have enough of all the other nutrients. HOST: Such as? RAY PEAT: I recommend drinking a quart or two of orange juice per day for a person who wants to bring their cholesterol up quickly. It’s much more efficient than eating a dozen eggs.

00:20:40 > HOST: Yes, I don't think eggs actually raise cholesterol as most people are being trained or premeditated belief and I do think that probably a high sugar diet of carbohydrate would raise cholesterol and triglycerides faster than anything. If people are low in the cholesterol which is the aim of, you know, we should have our cholesterol, I don’t agree with that, then they would be avoiding the very things they need, so what other things could they take in terms of supplements? RAY PEAT: Well, vitamin A is the main cofactor for thyroid to be able to turn cholesterol into those hormones. HOST: And that vitamin A from animal sources? RAY PEAT: Yes. In the 1930s, one of the signs for diagnosing hypothyroidism was progesterone deficiency and

00:21:42 > when some of these women who would have the severe symptoms of high estrogen and low progesterone, when some of them had their ovaries removed, the corpus luteum which means the yellow body for progesterone synthesized, these parts of the ovary were found to the bright red. They had accumulated carotene in place of vitamin A, and carotene at that high concentration completes for the enzymes that use vitamin A and so that it has an anti-vitamin A function. HOST: And unless people ate things like chicken livers and once again egg yolks or take cod liver oil, which is not very pleasant, they probably not gaining enough vitamin A from that retinol source? RAY PEAT: Yes, if your metabolic rate is high, your vitamin A requirement is very

00:22:44 > high because you'll be producing large amounts of pregnenolone and progesterone and that uses of vitamin A very quickly. Sometimes people noticed that in bright sunny weather, they all get acne or dandruff or some of the annoying little symptoms, and if they just take a big supplement of vitamin A and watch their thyroid, because vitamin A can inhibit the thyroid function, if those are in balance then you're able to make the amount of progesterone and pregnenolone that you need to respond to the long summer days. HOST: There you had some very interesting experiences yourself when you were implementing some of those little hormones like DHEA, I mean that's quite amazing.

00:23:46 > I have read that you grew 1.5 inches at the age of 46. Did you really need to grow? RAY PEAT: Yeah, I had grown up in Oregon and the winter in all parts of Oregon are pretty dark and stressful and I didn’t know that I was hypothyroid or lacking in hormones because, for example, when I would work in the woods I would eat sometimes over 10,000 calories per day, so I ate tremendous amounts and didn’t get fat so it took me a long time to realize that I could be hypothyroid and still have such an extremely high metabolic rates. But when I did try taking thyroid, I found that my rate of metabolism decreased sharply . It did something to increase my efficiency

00:24:48 > which was probably increasing my production of progesterone and pregnenolone, and so that led to a series of other experiments in which I tried taking each of the hormones individually and some doctor friends had noticed what they thought that the melanoma growing very fast. It was looked like an arrowhead, irregular and rapidly enlarging, and I didn't intend to have it removed, but I was watching it, and it happened just a few days after I began taking the DHEA that thing flared up and within about three days it was gone and around the same time, I noticed that my wisdom teeth which had started to grow up when I was around the age of 18 or 20

00:25:50 > had just stayed, never finished erupting for 25 years roughly. And within a couple of weeks of taking a small amount of DHEA, they began rotating and in just, I guess, a total of about a month they were perfectly oriented vertical rather than submerged in sideways. HOST: Now that's really quite motivated and inspirational to one of my people go and take a little bit of DHEA and you only recommend one to two milligrams a day which is decimal which a tiny amount compared to most supplements start at 12 milligrams, 25, 50, even go to 100. RAY PEAT: Yeah, teenage boys only make up about 12 milligrams per day at the maximum and so if you take 10 milligrams

00:26:52 > when you’re only 30 or 40, some of it is likely to be turned into estrogen. HOST: So when people are buying these supplements because in America you could pretty much get DHEA over-the-counter, not knowing all of this, and if they were to get 25 milligrams, is it likely that they actually not really getting the pharmaceutical grade that may be they would be best at beginning five milligrams? RAY PEAT: Well, I think they should just cut the tablets in fractions and just go by what the label says but cut it down so they are only taking about two to five milligrams per day. HOST: When buying supplements or looking for supplements, it’s always important to see what the company stands for, it’s a kind of reliable measure and I think for me personally, if I look at

00:27:54 > other fillers and things that shouldn't be there in some other formulas, I probably tend not to go with that company and at the same time, there are very, very few that really do use pharmaceutical grade that you can rely on. Do you have any favorites that you can recommend, and if you have patents, may I ask why you have not come up with your own formulas? RAY PEAT: Well, I did sell some of the DHEA dissolved in vitamin E which makes it a very quick-acting and controllable form that will circulate and distribute itself without affecting your liver. If you take it in the crystalline powdered form, your liver will get the first opportunity to metabolize it and that’s when it most easily turns into estrogen, but it dissolves

00:28:56 > completely in oil if you don't mind eating extra olive oil or coconut oil or butter for example, you can meld a few milligrams in spoonful of that. HOST: But if you’re taking just a plain DHEA capsule or tablet as one would have from everyday supply, if you're not taking it with some set of oils such as olive oil or vitamin E then your liver will have to work really hard. Is that what you’re HOST: saying right now? RAY PEAT: If you take it with the oil that helps to keep it from going into the liver. HOST: Okay. RAY PEAT: It helps to absorb it in the general circulation dissolved in the oil. HOST: What if I just take pregnenolone and don’t worry about that DHEA, would that do it? RAY PEAT: That's best I think. Several years ago I stopped giving people any DHEA because they tended to feel so good, they would keep

00:29:58 > taking more and more and one person enlarged his liver and had the estrogen level of the teenage girl and that effect can cause a lot of long-range problems. HOST: Taking – yes. RAY PEAT: I shifted to recommending that almost everyone use pregnenolone instead of DHEA because you can – in animal experiments, rats Awere given a 10 gram dose of pure pregnenolone and then their hormones were examined and it did nothing to the hormones of a happy healthy rats but the rat with under stress, it lowered the stress hormones. So it’s no matter how much you take, that would be like about two cups of powdered

00:31:00 > pregnenolone for a human, even that much doesn’t disturb your hormones, and if you were under stress, it will remove the stress hormones. HOST: Is there such a thing as taking too much pregnenolone? RAY PEAT: Well, for an experiment, I ate a kilogram of pregnenolone spread over a year that averaged up to about 3,000 milligrams a day and I felt great all that year. I could eat anything I wanted to and my metabolism just looks ideally regulated but the only reason I didn’t keep it up was its RAY PEAT: very expensive. HOST: Yes. And where do you get the old pregnenolone these days? RAY PEAT: I haven’t been using it. I have been working on how to increase my own production of it by

00:32:02 > adjusting the foods. HOST: Well, it’s fascinating, and how is progress? RAY PEAT: Very good. I use a small amount of the thyroid supplement such as Cytomel or Cynomel, a T3 supplement and then I emphasized sodium, calcium, and the sugary fruits in my diet and tried to get a lot of gelatin. And by keeping the ratio of calcium to phosphorous very high and having it slight excess of sodium either in the form of table salt or baking soda, that helps to regulate all the other minerals, so that you don’t have to worry so much about getting enough magnesium.

00:33:06 > Many foods are very low in magnesium, but if you eat extra sodium, your body retains almost all of the magnesium if you RAY PEAT: give it. HOST: Coffee is very high in magnesium. Is it correct? RAY PEAT: Yeah, that’s my main source of magnesium. HOST: So you drink coffee and I did read very interesting article about your perspective on caffeine and that actually helps with the brain functions and it inhibits, I think something to do with affecting other neurotransmitters, and of course if our neurotransmitters are balanced, it’s like well more balanced, and it’s perfectly normal to have two or three cups of coffee a day. Is it correct? RAY PEAT: Yes. It doesn’t hurt to drink 50 if that is what balances your metabolism, but I think everyone should

00:34:08 > try to get from three to five cups a day. There have been studies in which people who drink more than five cups had lower incidences of various kinds of cancer and lower incidence of dementia too. So, brain protection and avoidance of cancer are probably the two most important things a coffee does but it’s anti-inflammatory and anti- stress and has a very broad range of protective effects. HOST: Except it does raise cortisol levels. So if one doesn’t need the cortisol levels to be raised, which is the real stress hormone, they probably should limit their coffee one to two cups a day. And how you can tell if your cortisol is high that I read somewhere if you’re craving carbohydrates after you had a cup of coffee, you're probably having too HOST: much. RAY PEAT: Yeah, and by adjusting all of your nutrients, getting lots of

00:35:10 > calcium from milk and cheese for example, and a plenty of sugar from fruits in particular, those things all help to hold down your cortisol and eating small amounts at a time will reduce your stress hormones too. HOST: So if someone is vegetarian, like if they really a strict vegan, what would they need in terms of foundational hormones and how to increase them? RAY PEAT: Well, vitamin A is the main problem of a vegetarian because carotene can so easily get in the way of vitamin A functions. I had learned that by a young man who was extremely sick and his doctors had found that he had practically no vitamin A in his blood but extremely high carotene which was blocking

00:36:12 > all of his hormones. HOST: And sometimes people get very orange hands, if they actually had too much carotene. RAY PEAT: Yeah, and the carotene turns off your thyroid function very powerfully. In his case, all it took was one dose of vitamin B12, which is needed to convert carotene to vitamin A and within a week his symptoms had gone and his vitamin A level was normal and he was able to convert the carotene to vitamin A easily. HOST: Yes, a lot of vegetarian diets unless they take vitamin B12 shots, probably don't have enough B12 because it need to be synthesized in the liver. It needs to be synthesized actually in the stomach, and people think if they take spirulina or spinach and they are getting vitamin B12, it’s actually known as effective as perhaps having egg yolk.

00:37:14 > RAY PEAT: Yeah, and any little source of vitamin B12 can keep a vegetarian in good health as long as they avoid too many of the toxins. Many plants put out defensive substances, some of which are specifically designed to block our digestive enzymes, the proteolytic enzymes for example are blocked by polyunsaturated fats and it happens with – it’s the proteolytic enzyme in the thyroid gland that allows it to secrete hormones and so the same thing the plants put in their seeds to prevent the seeds being digested by animals. If that fat is absorbed and circulates in the bloodstream, it inhibits the secretion of thyroid hormone. HOST: Yes, so that is a very interesting point. I’d like to pose it

00:38:16 > because most people do consume formal polyunsaturated fats in terms of nuts. Most people think that protein is in nuts and if they are vegetarian or they just think that if I have 50 grams of almonds or cashews I'm going to get some proteins, and that affects not really the complete protein, but it has a very high level of unsaturated fats which cause an underactive thyroid and cause estrogen dominance. Is that correct? RAY PEAT: Yeah. About 30 years ago, I ran into a young woman who was wasting away and she tried to eat eggs and liver and all kinds of protein but she couldn't digest any protein, and she was down to 65 pounds, and was a fairly tall person. And I had been reading about research with some of the amino acid equivalents that are found in potatoes. Potato

00:39:18 > protein turns out to have a higher quality rank than egg yolk protein and it's because of these equivalent substances that aren’t quite amino acids, all they need is ammonia, and when this woman ate meat or eggs she would burp ammonia and something was causing that protein to be short-circuited into an instant conversion to ammonia, and knowing about the research on potato protein equivalence, I juiced some potatoes for her, made about a cup of the raw potato juice with all the starch removed and then cooked it like a scrambled egg, and she could eat it without the ammonia burps because it's very low in ammonia, but from that single meal, that single meal on, she

00:40:20 > went straight up to 130 pounds and right back to work. Since then I have seen people who had just extreme problems like inability to sleep for months at a time, causing them to become demented, and with one meal of the cooked potato juice one of these people went to sleep while eating the bowl of potato juice soup. It works so fast to energize the brain and start protein synthesis and repair. So if vegetarians will empathize protein from potatoes and not worry about the nuts that contain inhibitors, you don't really assimilate any protein of value for many of the oily nuts RAY PEAT: and seeds. HOST: And not to mention that the whole polyunsaturated oils and

00:41:22 > canola oil and sunflower oil which is so prevalent in anything that we buy these days and this, the good fat, the only fat that is purely recommended is the coconut oil. The coconut fat, the saturated fat, that most people are too scared to even try because in metro packet community alternative to conventional medicine community, mainstream doctors always mention to stay away from saturated fats especially coconut, and yet unique. It’s so unique and it’s underrated and you write a lot about coconut oil especially supporting the thyroid. RAY PEAT: Yeah. One of the first studies I saw about it, they had said, I think for a 15 experimental groups of rats which got a low-fat diet and average fat or a high-fat diet and each of the diets consisted of either

00:42:24 > coconut oil or corn oil or mixture and it turned out that at the end of a normal lifespan, the fattest rats were the ones who had the unsaturated fats. Either in a low-fat or high-fat diet, it didn’t matter, it was the ratio of unsaturated to saturated that created the obesity. And the leanest animals were the ones getting the coconut oil, even in a high-fat diets they were still the leanest. HOST: I certainly get advised every time I have coconut oil. It’s like an instant energy and in winter when it’s really, really cold that’s when it’s most noticeable. So, I do find that that particular fat is used instantly for fuel whereas other fats like lard and beef tallow are probably not. For that reason energy is I guess the most that we have in a diet that we can

00:43:26 > use the more energy we have the more HOST: heat. RAY PEAT: Yeah, for quick intense energy production the shorter fat that’s in coconut oil are most effective, but even the very long-chain saturated fats have specific protective biological functions. Liver researchers are finding that alcoholics with hepatitis and cirrhosis can be cured if they completely eliminate the polyunsaturated fats such as fish oil and replace them with absolutely saturated fat such as stearic acid and coconut oil. HOST: Yes, and of course most of the time they’re not advised that. So it's like really taking the basic chemistry 101 in facts and [indiscernible] [0:44:17] bought a fantastic book. She actually did a PhD which she explained the breakdown in the carbon bonds in all the fats and coconut

00:44:28 > fat was unique. It’s like genre of its own. In fact I think it says that it doesn't even require to be emulsified. It goes straight into the bloodstream and used for fuel. RAY PEAT: Yeah, the mitochondria can use it directly as if it were sugar for ease of producing energy. HOST: And it’s really so nice, coconut oil and coconut cream is just what I think the unused foods I think that are out there, and it's such a shame that they have given a bad name because they grouped into saturated fat and then saturated fat is actually quite a healthy thing, I mean 50 % of your heart is made of saturated fat so why would we need 50% of it around the heart? RAY PEAT: Well, there were studies about 30 years ago in which pregnant mice were fed either corn oil or coconut oil and the babies that were exposed

00:45:30 > prenatally to corn oil had smaller brains and weren’t very smart and the babies that were exposed prenatally to coconut oil had actually bigger brains and were more intelligent and similar experiments have been done on dogs and other animals. It actually increases the brain size relative to the body size to have a plenty of saturated fats. They really are the essential fatty acids HOST: It’s a shame that these experiments have not been done on people. RAY PEAT: Well, just recently a prenatal study was done on the trainability of the fetal heart rate. They found that the fetus responds to conditions and there

00:46:32 > was a short-term and a long-term learning that can be demonstrated simulating fetus at different ages before birth and they compared the intelligence of the fetus, the ability to learn with the amount of fish oil in the diet and then the mother’s tissues and they found that the only two things that corresponded to better short-term and long-term memory was the absence of the common essential so-called fatty acids and of the long- chain fish oil type fatty acids. So a deficiency of those prenatally was just recently demonstrated to make the human fetus learn better. HOST: Is that being interpreted into no fish oil, in other words fish oil is not

00:47:34 > as good as we have been made out to HOSTbelieve it is? RAY PEAT: Yes, there are many studies that people aren't being told about in which fish oil increases metastatic cancer, has very serious immune- suppressive effects that possibly relates to the fact that the cancer becomes more metastatic HOST: And is it because probably the fish oil is not only good quality and if it doesn't have vitamin E, it oxidizes, so runs very quickly in our body and would that be a part of it RAY PEAT: Some experimenters found that the beneficial so-called effects of fish oil which the anti- inflammatory effect is what most people are recommending it for but they found that that anti-inflammatory action only exists after the oil has been oxidized

00:48:36 > and it oxidizes very spontaneously so that by the time you swallow it and it gets in your bloodstream it's almost always oxidized. It used to be used for varnishes because it oxidizes and hardens so spontaneously and thoroughly and so the so-called beneficial effects really are associated with the breakdown products of it. HOST: To summarize that, should we be taking fish oil with vitamin E or should we just not worry about it and stick to salmon and sardines? RAY PEAT: I even avoided salmon and sardines because of those toxic effects of the oils. Just in the last two or three years the effects of certain breakdown products in the brain, they are highly associated with Alzheimer’s type dementia and

00:49:38 > these – they are called neuroprostanes and isoprostanes and their origin can be traced directly to the essential fatty acids and the DHA and EPA fish oils, and those have some very special involvement in producing Alzheimer’s dementia. So if you look at the prenatal effect and the Alzheimer’s effect, both ends are now incriminating the fish oil as a toxin and in between what's most clearly established is that it’s immunosuppressive HOST: Well, that definitely defines the world of economics and all the wonderful mission statements that supplement companies make so it’s almost like we already need to read widely and deeply to get to the bottom

00:50:40 > line of cellular energy. And speaking of energy, well advised to exercise – again anaerobic exercise is one of the best ways to release energy and feel energetic and yet a lot of the time this is actually kind of productive exercising for 40 or 50 minutes every day doing cardio will actually shut down the thyroid or reduce the thyroid gland. Can you explain that in depth? RAY PEAT: Well, when you reach the threshold at which lactic acid rises, that’s when you start feeling out of breath. The lactic acid has a pro-inflammatory effect and that goes with a falling blood sugar. The blood sugar is being suddenly consumed at a higher rate because lactic acid production is much less efficient than aerobic oxidation.

00:51:42 > So, when the lactic acid appears, the sugar is low and you can't make your active thyroid hormone, and if you're in very good health, your liver will be able to – when you rest your liver will get rid of the lactic acid. Your blood sugar will hopefully come back and your thyroid will be okay, but if your nutritional level isn't ideal, sometimes just one episode of lactic acid producing exercise is enough to knock you down into a lower metabolic state. HOST: The difference between exercise is people define in high intensity, endurance or even six- minute exercise where you just basically run uphill for 45 seconds, you run 50 minutes and you repeat that and that seems to be enormous amount of lean muscle tissue and kind of keep the lungs

00:52:44 > and the heart expanded. And there is a lot of debate and in my personal experience, I’ve seen as a nutritionist and physiologists, I see people that are fatigue, they are exhausted and they are actually putting on weight and they can’t lose weight because they are exercising too much and they convinced that they need to do something with their diet as opposed to cut down on exercise and change the format of exercise to suit the stress level because after all exercise is stress, too much is stress. RAY PEAT: Some of the Eastern European exercise physiologists long ago discovered that they can improve performance by making their athletes stop exercising, and one of the things that happens is when you stop exercising, soon enough your testosterone and pregnenolone and DHEA levels rise. And so they were accused of doping them. If you just stop exercise

00:53:46 > early enough, the muscle activity, for example lifting a dumbbell just a few times will cause your muscles to produce testosterone and other androgen such as DHEA, so the muscle becomes a steroidogenic gland when it's properly stimulated and not forced to the point where it starts making lactic acid HOST: So high intensity say two sets of dumbbells to failure and then resting for three days would probably be more effective than doing cardio for four or five times HOST: a week RAY PEAT: And since the mitochondrion is the source of steroid production, you have to take good care of the mitochondria which in the type of exercise you do ideally it should be mostly concentric exercise, meaning load while shortening

00:54:48 > and no load while relaxing and lengthen the muscle and that would mean running upstairs and sliding down the banister. RAY PEAT: Riding bicycle uphill and coasting down, so you get the loaded contracting muscle and the unloaded relaxing RAY PEAT: muscle. HOST: In the gym, if they were just doing weights that would look like bicep curl, tricep extensions, HOST: is it correct? RAY PEAT: It would be lifting the weight and dropping it, which isn't light so they... HOST: Okay. RAY PEAT: They have machines designed to basically let you drop the weight after lifting it. HOST: There are some people actually do that at the gym and I thought that was just that, they were just fed up with the exercise and I realize it's just part of the concentric force. RAY PEAT: Yeah, some exercise physiologists found that old people who seem to have

00:55:50 > deteriorated basically nonfunctioning mitochondria in their muscles, after a few weeks of doing only concentric exercise, they had brand-new mitochondria. HOST: So the bottom line is to do less when it comes to intense exercise less is more. RAY PEAT: Yeah, or more of the right kind and none of the wrong kind of activity. HOST: Exactly. So you studied linguistics which is kind of like was your first priority to do your PhD? RAY PEAT: No, I got as far as working on my dissertation the – it was closely related to the Whorfian hypothesis that language limits the way we think and so I was comparing the young doctors and the way people used Chinese

00:56:52 > and German and English and ensuring that people could think more efficiently about certain subjects in Chinese and English than in German or Hindi and the decisive thing that made me shift to first brain biology and then reproductive biology was I submitted a paper to a journal and the editor said that they accepted it but they wanted the clarification of a little remark I made about Noam Chomsky's linguistics. And when I expanded the paragraph, it was clear that I was criticizing Chomsky's view of language which was that is genetic and sort of absoluteness. There is no alternative except to think in language and the editors had to overly criticize

00:57:54 > Chomsky we get published that. And I saw that the linguistics culture was really just occult which at the time Chomsky's linguistics happened to be like he was the pope of linguistics theory and then when I began studying brain biology, I found that the brain biologists had a similar authoritarian hierarchy which you had to think in terms of tape recording circuitry and membrane all or nothing cell function and so on, certain stereotype dogmas. If you didn't do that, you couldn't be a brain biologist. And at that point, I looked around and decided to become a reproductive physiologist because they were the least dogmatic of a biology community

00:58:56 > HOST: And how was your thesis received at that time on progesterone in ’72? RAY PEAT: Oh, well, I don't think professors usually devote much time to thinking about their student’s work. In my Masters thesis on William Blake for example, it circulated among my committee for around six or seven months and I found when I got it back approved that the typist had left out paragraphs and no one had noticed. And in my PhD dissertation, there was really only one criticism out of the whole committee and that was something that I just explained repeatedly and professor finally understood my point and really – no

00:59:58 > one really paid attention to the basic features very much. HOST: In your experience in your projects they had lots of them and vast research, it there such a thing Raymond as a scientific fact, and if there is, what would it be? RAY PEAT: Well, the people mean different things when they say fact, but I think that there is such a thing as a fact which is the experience the actual substance that is perceived, but then we live in a world of meaning and those perceptions is sort of like the gestalt psychology illustrations and they have pictures of ambiguous figures, profiles and vase or a young girl and an old hag in which

01:01:00 > some people will see one figure and others will see together. That process of imposing meaning on those experiential facts, you can have an absolutely clear experience and events that happens and then different people will interpret it and impose their meaning on it differently and that’s where the science becomes very much the same situation I was studying in linguistics. We live in a universe of meaning which for most people is nothing but the culture and the language that they grew up knowing and so we can – an ant and I can experience a situation and I'll tend to agree with the ant more than I will agree with a biologist or a physicist.

01:02:02 > HOST: And the more languages we speak or the more concepts we understand, the more ways we see the world, the more meaning we have. RAY PEAT: Yeah, there have been studies comparing the intelligent behavior of polylingual kids and bilingual kids really are more intelligent than monolingual kids, because they somewhat get out of the rigid way of perceiving the world that one language gives. And by the age of three, people are already getting into that authoritarian dissuaded frame of mind, so that monkeys at the age of – same as a three-year-old kid, will behave more intelligently of solving some kinds of

01:03:04 > problems than the child because the child is already using linguistic preconceived ideas where the monkey or the ant or whatever animal if doesn't have language will look at the situation freshly. HOST: Yes, and the whole world understanding linguistics and seeing the world through the description of the language speaks deserves at least another hour. So Raymond, is there a question I have not asked you that you would have liked to answer? RAY PEAT: Nothing occurs to me. HOST: Okay, then it was a very standout engaging conversation we had. I certainly could have asked you a lot more questions and find that your knowledge is so in depth that I do probably need to read your articles twice or three times and often recommend people to visit

your website and to acquaint themselves with the bottom- line information besides especially a lot of irrelevancies that we find in the world of informational infoglut and your website is www.ray peat.com. Ray, it's been really a pleasure talking to you and you were put in the hot seat. You’ve done a marvelous job, and like to thank you and have a HOST: great day. RAY PEAT: Okay. Thank you. HOST: Bye for now. And I’d like to thank Monica Brown for her wonderful contribution from a Emmaus Production and till next time in wellness to your health.